Wednesday, June 30, 2004


I still do not have new language but this idea came to me.

Holiness is like a football game. The players enter the field through a tunnel. This tunnel reminds me of when Holy Spirit first enters our lives. Then the players hit the field. Though the tunnel is full of emotion and expectations the field is where the work is done. The field is where the game is won or lost. The field of life is where our Love for God and creation grows or dies. God is with us but we must work at this relationship. Furthermore a lone football player playing a team will get killed. (Lakers different sport but its true.) We need others around us for this game of Love to be fun and for us to succeed. I think what intrigues me most about this metaphor is the idea that holiness viewed in this sense is fun. Holiness viewed in lists of us and them or do's and don’ts is lame.

Does this hold water? Does it work?

If you leave a comment as anonymous please leave your name in the comment text.



You have done a very good job with this analogy, it gives it life and makes it a visual and not just an "out there theory".

The lists you refer to are what help to guide and mold us to be mighty warriors on the game field. If it were in a different arena, say gladiator's, then we would have to know how to use an axe, a sword, a mace, a javelin and our bare hands. We would need a list of do's and dont's on how to use the weapons at our disposal and we would also have to know when to use them and when not to. In close combat we would have to know that the best weapons in our arsenal would be the axe and sword or our bare hands and then we would have to know the don'ts of using them such as; never hold the axe by the blade, never hold the sword by the blade and never ever hold the axe or sword in a position that should you fall they would pierce through you.

Then of course there would be the do's and dont's of our armour, like never wear armour that weighs so much that when you thrust at the enemy you fall head long into him. Never wear a helmet that blocks your vision to the sides in case the enemy comes at you from a different angle.

Even in football there are lists of do's and don'ts or as some refer to them as "Rules". Ah you like paintball if I remember correctly, so do I and my family. Paintball has rules or lists of do's and don'ts as well and they are there for safety reasons as well as a code of conduct. I think this is why that in our Christian walk there are rules of conduct too, for safety reasons and for moral and ethical reasons. Have you ever played paintball with someone who disregards all the rules and is just out to win, no matter the cost? Most of us have if we have played long enough. What happens to that person who says the rules or list of do's and don'ts, don't apply to me? Usually they are taken out of the game in a big way and then they are not welcome back to ever play again. Usually with this type of person on the field of play, someone gets seriously hurt and then the game also gets a bad name and pretty soon, if enough people disregard the rules or list of do's and don'ts and enough people get hurt the game is outlawed.

Life is complicated and working our salvation out in Christ Jesus is not an easy task. There are points in our lives where we say "hang the rules, I know a better easier way" and what happens? We stumble we fall we lose our armour, we can be stripped of our weapons and we can be penalized for unsportsman like conduct, only it is a little more serious when it comes to our salvation.

Blessings brother, just thought I would add some more thought provoking realities to your quest in Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

By Blogger Concerned Citizen, at 10:37 AM  

I'm looking forward to what you have to day Bill.

And your comment goofy, is thought provoking. I would suggest however, as in your analogy, that after fundamentals of any skill are learned, (ie the do's and don'ts) one does not dispense with them, but transcends them. When you have become proficient at the skill, you don't have to think about the rules, you just do them instinctively. Regarding holiness, I don't think we have to think about the do's and don'ts, but to transcend the rules, we just LOVE. Can you think of any unholiness that comes from loving God with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strength, or loving our neighbors as ourselves?

Good Journey

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:26 PM  

Hey Anonymous, "transcends" is a mighty big word in its definition and it would take a mighty big Christian to transcend to perfection. Trusting to do anything learned perfectly or without error isn't really practical or safe. Relying on ones instincts as learned in a skill, isn't necessarily the optimal way to go either. Those things which we learn, even over the course of time and drilling, are still subject to human error and there is always the element of change. When it comes to holiness, again the word transcend is a mighty big word. Not one of us have attained to perfection, especially to the point that we can say "we just LOVE". No I cannot think of any unholiness that comes from "loving God with all our hearts, minds, souls and strength, or loving our neighbor as ourselves" but again none, not one that I can think of outside Jesus Christ has attained to this level to where we can say, "I LOVE WITH AN UNCONDITIONAL, PERFECT LOVE", so the rules still apply and the do's and don'ts are what keep us on the right track so that we just may transcend someday to the Glory and Honour that we wish to obtain in Christ Jesus.

By Blogger Concerned Citizen, at 10:12 AM  

i agree that we do not reach the perfection of our Lord Jesus Christ, but hopefully we walk in His Light. I have no problem with you having to tell yourself to put down your left foot, then right foot, etc..., but I'm just going to walk...

enjoy the journey,
Sorry for not ID'ing myself last time....

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:17 PM  

Hey Dan,

How can I comment back to what you said to me, if I don't know how to reach you? It doesn't seem fair to use Bills blog to do that. You can click on my Goofy name and talk to me at my blog if nothing else. I don't get exactly what you were implying, left foot, right foot and you'll just walk?

By Blogger Concerned Citizen, at 4:46 PM  

Post a Comment


We are moving this week and should be finished by friday. Major Chuck Gillies was in the office today. He is the new senior pastor at redondo beach. We are excited. This change should be good. Squakbox wanted money for thier comments so I am trying out blogger comments. I will see if it works okay.

Blessings to you all


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Friday, June 25, 2004

buisy couple weeks

A lot has happened over the last two weeks, Tolani was commissioned last weekend and family was in town. I love her family but one week is just too long. My mom was in town for three days. We had a very pointless discussion on the merits of the King James Version. We both agree the NIV is a bad translation but for very different reasons. Se had the same line "majority of manuscripts equals best translation." With all my books packed I couldn't go anywhere except to say no. But primarily my problem is that she believes that KJV is readable. I hate Shakespeare why would I read KJV? I am fine with my NRSV, NLT, TEV/GNB, and Message.

Anyway, I am attending four days of class right now. We are looking at the doctrine of Holiness. Two things have struck me:

1) Holiness involves recovering the Imago Dei or Image of God
2) We need new language for holiness and sanctification

I will think about this more latter.


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Thursday, June 17, 2004

The result

Lloyd Wrote:
"Are we talking about "one" salvation here through Jesus Christ, or others through other persons, gods, or sources?"

I presuppose the Salvation in a Christian discussion is attained only through faith in the Triune God. My question is simply what does this gift (both received and given) look like?

Does it simply look like heaven (however that is defined) or does salvation look like or better yet exist in the temporal physical world?

Furthermore, if God redeemed humanity on the cross, (redemption does not equate with salvation in my mind it is only part of it) did he not do the same for the rest of creation?

If God redeemed the world what should a Christians relationship with the world look like? Should it not be a redeemed relationship?

Shouldn't there be something different about followers of Christ then simply their language, dress, what they do on Sunday morning?

Lloyd wrote:
"Salvation is the work of God by which He saves man from the eternal doom of sin. In salvation He gives to man the riches of His grace which mean eternal life now and forever. Salvation is the work of God and not a work of man for God."

Is faith or belief (same word in Greek and Hebrew) not a work? Salvation is a two way street God has give proveniant grace to all we respond, we do something. Salvation is not something God does to us. It is a at minimum at two way relationship. The early church (up to 1500) believed it to be three way. The church was essential to salvation. Without the church one could not be saved. Unfortunately this correct doctrine got institutionalized. I do not we can enter into a relationship with God without also entering into relationship with other followers of Christ.

All that to say:Salvation is a process where we come into a reconciled community (relationship) with; God, the people of God, and the creation of God.

Lloyd that you for your comments and interaction. My problem is that salvation as you see it (and I am not saying your wrong) has led to a church that not very different then anyone else except the language they use, the clothes they wear (sometimes), and what they do on Sunday morning. This is not only the Army but it is usually worse in every other church/institution I have seen.

As a result I believe we MUST redefine what it means to follow Christ in this century.

Blessings on the journey


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Monday, June 14, 2004

On Salvation

After doing some reflecting and conversing with some I want to propose a definition for Salvation.

Salvation is: A process where we come into a reconciled community with; God, the people of God, and the creation of God.

Salvation is not only our relationship with God. It is our relationship with everything.

What do you think?


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Wednesday, June 09, 2004

Random Thoughts

What a busy couple weeks.

We have an annual dinner tomorrow, Tolani is commissioned a week from Saturday, I have a budget to do tomorrow, I have to pack all my books, I have to pack everything else. (I must remember the order: books, electronics, CD's, all other stuff.) Tolani has a much different order. We got some good news. We will be moving into the Redondo Beach Quarters (parsonage). Its a four bedroom house with a large family room and loft. It comes with a pool table. This pool table came with the house when the SA bought it. It weighs 800lbs or so. My depression is finally starting to end.

I feel better. I am also starting to think more clearly.

Recently a number of people have been talking about salvation. Whenever I hear most people though they only talk about salvation in the following formula: Accept Christ as a result one is saved. The purpose of salvation is entrance into heaven.

When I read scripture I see much more about salvation being a here and now thing then a heaven thing.

I do think heaven is important but shouldn't we be more concerned about salvation of our lives here and now?

So since everything starts with definitions:

What is your definition of Salvation?


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