Saturday, July 03, 2004


Goofy and Dan,
Thanks for the feedback. The question is one about discipline and skills. In football every person excels at the game by focusing on different skills. Wide recievers have different skills then linemen ect. Even linemen all have different skills and different jobs. Furthermore each coach has a different way of teaching basic skills.

In our Christian walk our skills build and develop. Each person must work on different things in their life as they struggle towards holiness. I am a Wesleyan because I do believe that people can reach a point in this life where "ever action is motivated out of love" (Wesley's definition of holiness). The problem with legalism or even much of early Methodism rules of discipline are that they were rules for everyone. But we are all different. Some need to abstain from drinking I am one of those because of family background. Others need to pray and read every morning. Others need to... The point is every person is unique. We all learn separate skills to someday be perfected in Love. The churches job is to coach but as with all coaching it is individualized. A good coach fits their game around the players.



Hey Bill,

All this reminds me of the problem with power structures in the Church. That may sound a little off of holiness, but just bear with me. If Church is set up with heirarchical structures (i.e. pastors, priests, etc) then there has been an inherent (at least in my background in church) "You go intervene to God for us." You know the type of attitude Moses got after coming down from Sinai. If the church leadership understood their job as equipers of the faith instead of interventioners (that is a new word, btw) then I think that holiness could be grasped (at least in a larger part than what I have seen today).

I agree that we should all excel in different spiritual gifts (a spiritual gift being a gift that you do whether you want to or not, as being distinct from a talent, which you are good at but will not do if you are in a bad mood) and those spiritual gifts should be nutured and recognized by the leadership of the local body of believers and encouraged even if the leadership does not have that gift. I also refuse to address the issue of the so called, "Supernatural gifts" in this comment (suffice it to say I believe they exist today, but very rarely do we see them).

By Blogger Dwight, at 9:29 AM  

Bill, hey,

Quick question and then I would like to discuss further if that is acceptable to you. What do these statements mean to you, it is speaking about Wesley:

Sanctification he spoke of (1790) as the "grand depositum which God has lodged with the people called `Methodists'." Wesley taught that sanctification was obtainable instantaneously by faith, between justification and death. It was not "sinless perfection" that he contended for; but he believed that those who are "perfect in love" feel no sin. He was anxious that this doctrine should be constantly preached for the system of Wesleyan Arminianism, the foundations of which were laid by Wesley and Fletcher.

By Blogger Concerned Citizen, at 5:57 PM  

I forgot to identify myself last time when I commented anonymously, but you ID'd me. Must have been my signature closing. I like the holiness thing when seen in the context of love, it prevents the 'holier than thou' mentality.

Good Journey,

(yeah, it's me.....)

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:08 PM  

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