Sunday, August 29, 2004

Thoughts on prayer

These are the thoughts I had while listening to some teaching on prayer they are totally unrelated to each other.

Do I really believe that prayers matter?

If the future is not set completely, then God can make a difference in Tolani's health.

I should pray to that end if I answer yes to question 1.

But, what if I affirm both ideas and God Does not choose to enter into our lives and heal her?

I do not know.

What if I Choose not to pray?

God will not enter in and heal.

So is the future set completely? God forbid. God is Emmanuel here with us. God can move if I move toward him.

I used to believe
I used to pray
I thought it mattered what I said
Somewhere I stopped believing
what's the point if God knows it all anyway?

I used to pray
saw lives changed
Saw God move
Was it all an illusion
Was it all a lie

I heard a myth
so many times
I started to believe that God knew all
So why pray
doesn't matter anyway

But now I see
All that God does
For you and me
So I am left without choice
I will draw near to God
God will draw near to me

Its time to pray

10 Comments:

Dear Heavenly Father,

Even though You can choose to heal or choose not to, I pray for Tolani's health. You will receive the glory for healing in Your way and in Your time. I know You don't need us to pray for her healing, but you want us to in reverence and love for You. You love Tolani and Bill. I pray that t You want to show them that love in tangible outcomes and ways they understand. In the name of Jesus, I ask You to impart Your healing touch, so when Tolani is healed, they will know it was You and only You. You heal whom you choose to heal, I know that. But, selfishly, I ask for healing for my Christian sister, Tolani, and confidence of that future healing for my Christian brother, Bill. May You receive the honor and praise for healing in the name of Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen.

Lloyd
lmf4@mchsi.com

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:30 PM  

Prayer is not to change God or to manipulate or appease Him into doing our will or "fixing" our circumstances. Prayer is to change us and help us to consider and meditate on what God's will for us in our circumstance.

By Blogger Jesus is my Propitiation, at 12:45 AM  

Bill,

I think you are asking great questions. I do believe that prayers can move God. Look at Isaiah and Hezekiah's interaction and his prayer to God that prolonged his life another 20 years, when God told him that death was very near.

As to the anonymous poster. If prayer's only purpose is for me to understand God, then why did Jesus say that with the faith of a mustard seed we could move mountains? Why are we told to pray for others? Understanding. Heaven forbid that the whole reason I pray is for intellectual ascent to God. Or even spiritual ascent to God.

No, we pray because God can change his mind about the matter. Moses argued with God about killing the Israelites several times and God changed his mind about them. They were allowed to live. Our prayers can extend the life of people in some occasions. If they couldn't I would slash my wrists as I flipped off God for being so cruel.

Prayer matters because God is a father who listens to the desires of his children and if he wants to he can grant them the desires of their hearts. Not because he is Santa Claus or that I can arm wrestle God (although Jacob wrestled with God) into doing something he doesn't want to do, but because we ask in order to recieve. If we did not ask I believe that we cannot recieve it. If my child is hungry but does not ask for food I will not give it to him. If I ask if he is hungry and he does not respond I will not give him food. If he asks for food I will give it to him.

By Blogger Dwight, at 8:58 AM  

Dwight,

I suspect I should have known you would be critical of another's heart-felt prayer of intercession for others. Are we critiquing prayers now?

The prayer was not intended for your criticism or critiquing, nor has doing so helped the situation.

It is clear that Bill seeks answers in ways that he can understand and see. Most of us do! Sorry you feel that seeking that understanding is not to your liking. Even with the observations made by Jesus in the "Mustard Seed" illustration, he knew men and women needed to understand the implications and would see results. Sometimes people pray, but perceive they don't see things happening or mountains moved, even when they have great faith. God does what He wishes, when He wishes. We can only ask!

I just don't understand why you would be critical of another's prayers. It only seems argumentative for argument's sake.

Lloyd

Lloyd

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:42 AM  

Dwight,

I suspect I should have known you would be critical of another's heart-felt prayer of intercession for others. Are we critiquing prayers now?

The prayer was not intended for your criticism or critiquing, nor has doing so helped the situation.

It is clear that Bill seeks answers in ways that he can understand and see. Most of us do! Sorry you feel that seeking that understanding is not to your liking. Even with the observations made by Jesus in the "Mustard Seed" illustration, he knew men and women needed to understand the implications and would see results. Sometimes people pray, but perceive they don't see things happening or mountains moved, even when they have great faith. God does what He wishes, when He wishes. We can only ask!

I just don't understand why you would be critical of another's prayers? It only seems argumentative for argument's sake.

Lloyd

Lloyd

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:43 AM  

Dwight,

I suspect I should have known you would be critical of another's heart-felt prayer of intercession for others. Are we critiquing prayers now?

The prayer was not intended for your criticism or critiquing, nor has doing so helped the situation.

It is clear that Bill seeks answers in ways that he can understand and see. Most of us do! Sorry you feel that seeking that understanding is not to your liking. Even with the observations made by Jesus in the "Mustard Seed" illustration, he knew men and women needed to understand the implications and would see results. Sometimes people pray, but perceive they don't see things happening or mountains moved, even when they have great faith. God does what He wishes, when He wishes. We can only ask!

I just don't understand why you would be critical of another's prayers? It only seems argumentative for argument's sake.

Lloyd

Lloyd

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:43 AM  

Hey Lloyd,

My comments were not directed at you, because you posted your name and e-mail.

My thoughts were posted against Jesusismypropitiation who is more anonymous than you were.

I wasn't criticizing your prayer at all. Sorry about the misunderstanding and the fact that you think that I am so heartless to critize your prayer. I thought your prayer was quite comforting actually.

By Blogger Dwight, at 9:17 AM  

Dwight,

I'm sorry as I misunderstood. Please accept my apology. It is clear that I did not read your response correctly.

God bless you!

Lloyd
lmf4@mchsi.com

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:30 PM  

Sorry if I seem anonymous to you. I think I'm as anonymous as you are, but maybe I don't know what I'm doing with blogger well enough, yet, and you are not as anonymous as I think you are.

I like your analogy of a parent - child relationship. If I know my child is hungry, I will feed him whether he asks for it or not. If he does not tell me, I might not know he is hungry, but I probably will. I know my child well. I know what time of day he gets hungry, I know what kinds of foods he likes, and I know when he's been snacking between meals. I will also make him eat his veggies, whether he wants to or not, and keep him away from too many sweets. I know better than he does what is good for him. God knows better than me what is good for me. God knows me better than I know my son.

From our perspective it may seem that God changes, but God does not change from His perspective. "Is God a man that He should change His mind?"

Joseph was thrown into a pit by his brothers and sold into slavery in Egypt. Then he was falsely accused of rape and thrown into prison. He was forgotten by the one man, the cup bearer, who could help his fortune. Joseph never is recorded as getting mad at God or doubting Him. In Genesis 50:20, Joseph's brothers were fearful that after Jacob's death Joseph will exact revenge against them, he says, "you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good." See that? God did it to him, too. God also had him thrown in the pit. God is to blame for his sale into slavery, too. The brother's had a plan and God had a plan. The brother's motives were evil - God's motive was good. Same action, two different plans, two different motives. Because all things do "work together for good" even when we don't see it or understand it.

By Blogger Jesus is my Propitiation, at 10:14 AM  

Hey Dwight,

I would like to extend the same invitation to you that I have extended to 1 John 4:10/Jesus is my propitiation, Lloyd Micheal, and Paul Munro, I think its time as Pastor's we come together and rightly divide the Word with 1 John 4:10 and give Bill and Tolani a break. So come on down and we can all share together and hear exactly what 1 John wants to say, express or lecture on. It ought to be a good time of fellowship, so please come join us.

Goofy

By Blogger Concerned Citizen, at 10:46 AM  

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