Thursday, November 25, 2004

Answered prayer

Yesterday November 24, 2004 my grandfather Frank Bergren Jr. moved on from this life, left the pain behind, and now continues his relationship with God in another plane of existence.

Change is the essence of conversion

He was a changed man


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Thursday, November 18, 2004

My Grandfather

My grandfather is in the hospital right now. he will be released soon to go home with hospice care. As a result of cancer treatments his body is not making new blood cells. He probably does not have long. Soon I will post a tribute to him. I'm just not ready yet. Pray that he will not be pain.


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Dwight knows well.

The power I speak of are the structures of power which are seen in every area of life. There are two types of rewards in life: Money and Power. While money often brings about power, power does not always bring about money. In the church pastors rarely (and shouldn't) exist to get rich. Most pastors are paid well but unless they are crooks (televangelists) they are not rich. However, power still exists as the reward.

Climb the ladder is the battle cry. Youth to associate. Associate to senior. Senior to bigger church more staff more power. Employee to cadet, cadet to officer, assistant officer to corps officer, corps officer to divisional staff, striving for leadership divisional commander, territorial commander, general.

The power cycle. It sucks. It really does. But can we exist without it? Is there a way to do power better?


Hi, Bill!

Yes, we can "handle the power trip" better!

Learn to follow Jesus Christ's example and learn to be the "servant of all." He is the real source of power!

If all Christians, including officers of different levels, thought of themselves as "servants" instead of "lords" the church would be more "Christ-like" and make better strides in the world.

Too often, those who are placed in postions of power above us, are on "power trips" over those below and enjoy "lording" instead of "serving."

Is their anything wrong with all of us being "co-workers" in God's vineyard where each person is important and needed? "Power trips" won't help, but "servant relationships" will! It seems we need more "basin and towel" (Jesus and Peter) relationships, than "lording" ones!

Bill, I was saddened to hear of your recent loss of a precious one in your family. We are praying for your family. God bless you!

Lloyd Michael Fletcher, Major (R)

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:08 AM  

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Thursday, November 11, 2004


I've been thinking,
Is it possible to have a church where power does not exist?


It depends what type of power you are talking about, if you mean holy spirit power, it probably is possible to have a church, but that church certainly wont be doing anything if there is no holy spirit power. It is only when churches call on the Power of the Holy Spirit that things start to happen in a mighty way.

If you are talking about power as in power base of people... different story.

By Blogger Listeningear, at 9:28 PM  

No I think that power has to exist in any human institution, regardless of whether or not the Spirit is present. If humans are present then a power struggle is also present.

At WGA there are those that have tremendous power over people's lives, but it is how they wield that power that is awe inspiring. They have power in order to empower the broken and beaten and abused of the world. They use their power to give voice to the voiceless. They have a lot of power, probably because they pour that power into other's lives with little or no concern about keeping any for themselves.

But I keep seeing churches, including my own, that a few wield power and work constantly to keep it. Those that try to gain power for whatever reason are either given it if not seen as a threat or are denied it and in extreme cases driven forceably from that church because they are a threat to someone else's power.

Few church splits are really over doctrinal issues (especially ones that matter). All of the ones that I have seen are over power masking itself over one particular issue and two or more people to stubborn to back down and let go of their power.

By Blogger Dwight, at 8:28 AM  

Hi, Bill!

Are we talking about a "church" as a building or denomination, or a group of people?

The Holy Spirit was to come upon the disciples as the Lord left to go to heaven. He was to bring "power" for the disciples to evangelize.

The "power" was given to the people individually, not to a church structure. It seems we have chosen to build buildings and denominations which often lack in power of the Holy Spirit.

If there are members of a church body who lack power, I would contend that it is because they have chosen not to accept the power of the Holy Spirit, or if they have it, they choose to stagnate and ignore it.

It does affect the kind of evangelists they become - real or shallow? Thus, they either use the power of the Holy Spirit or stifle it!

God bless you!

Lloyd Michael Fletcher

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:23 AM  

Lloyd said, "If there are members of a church body who lack power, I would contend that it is because they have chosen not to accept the power of the Holy Spirit, or if they have it, they choose to stagnate and ignore it.

It does affect the kind of evangelists they become - real or shallow? Thus, they either use the power of the Holy Spirit or stifle it!"

What if the power that is being spoken of is not from the Spirit but from the individual? I have seen those with power from the Spirit being emotionally slaughtered by those who are using their own power over people. What if the power that Bill is asking about is the type that is the stumbling block for the rest of us? What I mean by that is what if the power structure that the protestant church, even the SA, has become abusive in nature and actually works against the Spirit. What if the Spirit is working in spite of us and our structure instead of with us and our structure?

We all know that there are those that seek power in order to lord it over others. I know that Jesus' power was incredible because he gave it away. Our structures in church and even in small groups, where a pecking order must be in place before anything real can happen, setup a dichotomy of those with power and those without. Those without power are dependent on those that are and thus the priesthood of all believers becomes the high priesthood of the chosen ones and the codependency of the rest. For those that do not fall into line on these issues, I have seen the chosen ones brutally and swiftly bring public disgrace on those that will not be codependant and will not join the chosen ones.

Also, I found those two paragraphs abusive in nature and a little too black and white. Is the Holy Spirit limited only to evangelism in people's lives? Also if one is not manifesting the power of the Spirit is it possible that there is another reason beside either not accepted or ignoring it. What if they were beaten into not using it by a pastor? What if they were taught that they alone are not worthy of receiving God's grace and even though they are a Christian they cannot accept God's love and walk in that? I guess I see more than two options for why the church, especially the American church is not demonstrating the power of Christ. I would generally pinpoint it back to human power overriding God's power in someone's life.

Lloyd, I am not trying to attack you here. I just think that there is more to it than those that have the Spirit and use it and those that have the Spirit and the individual chooses to either deny or ignore the Spirit's work. I believe that others play a huge role in that outgrowth as well and we need to take responsibility for our actions in other's lives and work to change our negative interactions with each other.

By Blogger Dwight, at 11:35 AM  


I can understand what you are saying and I don't disagree. However, if people in the church lack power - they have not chosen to follow the Holy Spirit because He has already indwelt them at the moment of conversion.

If they continue on their way of hurting, manipulating, or involving themselves in "earthly" power plays, that isn't of the Holy Spirit. They may blame the Holy Spirit for that, but we know different. Nor should they be doing things contrary to the Holy Spirit and claim justification for doing it.

My answer may appear to be "black and white," but not given as a harsh indictment. There are those whom the Holy Spirit empowers, but you only see the Holy Spirit shine through. It can be a lovely thing when that happens. I have seen the manipulation which you speak in denominations, cell groups, etc. (even our own denomination) and they may be characterized as coming from the Holy Spirit and His power, but I highly doubt it. He has a way of cutting through the falsehood, so that His truth shines forth.

I still contend that God's Holy Spirit is there for us like Jesus Christ promised. He was sent to help us and infill us with His power if we are willing to accept it and follow Him. Do we possess the Holy Spirit, or does He possess us?

I am speaking of people taking responsibility. If God wants us to have the power of the Holy Spirit within us, we are to be responsible to wait and claim it. It is our responsibility to do things that uplift the body of Christ and the Lord Jesus Christ, not to play games or be untruthful in any way. Otherwise, the power of the Holy Spirit has not really reached us in a tangible way.

The early disciples waited for the power of the Holy Spirit to come upon them and the history of the church followed. Some of the history has been good and the power of the Holy Spirit has been evident. Some of the history has not been so good with people claiming the Holy Spirit's power, but lacking it and it shows! Some reflect the fruit in Galatian 5:22-23, while others do not!

God bless you!

Lloyd Michael Fletcher

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:32 AM  

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Monday, November 08, 2004


Well bush won
lets hear it for 4 years of war
its kerry's fault
my mom sent me a forward that said that it was a sin to vote for bush.
funny, pissed me off though

I went to a weekend camp with 3 jr highers learned all about truth.

I learned
1) a red balloon is always red its objectively true. (they did not mention how all language is a social construction)
2) I learned that all I need to do is know Jesus (which means knowing objective facts and obeying)
3) Christ's death was a substitution for our sin to make us right according to the law.
4) I learned that knowing the right think to do is actually easy and quote "there are always right and wrong choices."
5) I learned that truth is absolute. And absolute truth is in scripture.
6) I learned how to do a hour long committal service.

But the comedians were as funny as Bush's quote "the war is over"
hilarious and In-N-Out for lunch so it wasn't a total loss.


I want to know Bill, have you confessed your voting sin?

And who among us was without sin to cast the "right" vote?

; )

(excused my warped sense of humor)

By Blogger Dan (aka Br Bozano), at 10:08 AM  

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